ISPN

[tmkeesey]

(This is a continuation of a discussion begun in discussions of the names "Dinosauria" and "Aves".)

Consider this note from the current draft of the PhyloCode:

[Nick Gardner]

Admittedly, I find all of these prefixes to be somewhat unnecessarily complicated. But I can understand where someone might have a use for them, I am just somewhat ambiguous to my own feelings on the matter overall. It seems both wasteful and useful at the same time. :P

[tmkeesey]

The prefixes for inter-code homonyms and the hyphenation pattern for homonymous genus-level names don't seem unnecessary to me at all--they're good solutions to real problems.

I like the Pan- and Apo- prefixes, but it's true that they aren't necessary, per se. I think they are very helpful, though.

I'm on the fence about "Holo-". Nobody else seems to have seen a need for such a prefix, and I think that in the vast majority of cases, at least, there's no need. It does seem to me that there might be a handful of cases where it could be useful. ("Holo-Reptilia" is the best example I can think of.) Just wanted to see what others though.

Well, for an example closer to home for you, Nick, what about "Holo-Ornithopoda" (could be node-based using Heterodontosaurus and Camptosaurus, or something)?

Another example that just occurred to me would be "Holo-Artiodactyla" (including Cetacea), although there is another name for that already (Cetartiodactyla) and arguably it should just be called Artiodactyla....
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T. Michael Keesey
Director of Technology, Exopolis, Inc.

[Nick Gardner]

[tmkeesey]

From the original post: "to distinguish the cladistic meaning of a name from its traditional paraphyletic usage." That is, take the paraphyletic meaning (or one of the paraphyletic meanings, if it is variable) and add the descendants.

So, "Holo-Ornithopoda" could potentially include marginocephalians.

Well, just an idea, anyway. Maybe it's not that useful.
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T. Michael Keesey
Director of Technology, Exopolis, Inc.

[dinoguy2]

I like the Holo- idea mainly because, even though thereare alternate names in a majority of cases (doesn't Holo-Reptilia = Sauropsida? Or is that stem-based?), its actually less confusing. The names Reptilia and Sauropsida have no discernable connection out of context, wheras with a standard prefix, you know exactly that Holo-Reptilia is the clade and Reptilia is the traditional paraphyletic group. The only question is whether you mean the traditional crown group, or if you're including Synapsida. Maybe there should be a prefix for double+ paraphyly, like Euholo-Reptilia

[Nick Gardner]

[tmkeesey]

[tmkeesey]

It seems to me that the cases where this prefix would be useful might be fairly few and far between. Therefore it may not be a good idea to add it as an official recommendation to the code, but let things stand as they are, allowing systematists to create new names or convert old ones as appropriate. There nothing to prevent someone from simply naming "Holoreptilia" or "Holosteichthyes" (although I think something like "Ostei" would be better for the latter one, anyway).
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T. Michael Keesey
Director of Technology, Exopolis, Inc.

[Nescio]

[tmkeesey]

"Holo-Vermes" would be unnecessary, anyway--it's already called Bilateria.
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T. Michael Keesey
Director of Technology, Exopolis, Inc.

[Nescio]

Actually, I think you'll find it's called Eumetazoa, if we go by Linnaeus' definition. But I was deliberately using a silly example - I believe my point is nonetheless clear.

[leowsham]

I'm admittedly more radical on this issue - I am against all these prefix which, I consider, are nonetheless less parsimonious than having a good and sound convertion of existing (paraphylectic) taxa. The essence of taxonomy, I think, is not to race to publish or establish new clade-names, but to seek to keep named clades to a workable minimum... and I know there're guys who want me dead
Having said that, I think Holo- would be more useful if they are restricted to, say, node-based clades - that gives Keesey's manouver more context.
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vivat scientia !!!

[David Marjanović]